drew sagan

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Posts by drew sagan

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  16

  My husband admitted being too fearful to leave the JWs

  by doublelife in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my husband came home from work and told me that he told his mom about me not believing in this religion anymore.

  she's concerned and thinks i should tell my family.

  i told him no.

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  drew sagan

  Another suggestion, taken from my own personal experience.

  Many books have been written on this subject, and they articulate their arguments much better than somebody who is just starting to "counter witnesses" to their loved ones.

  My goal was to get Ray Franz's 'Crisis of Conscience' into my wifes hands and let her read it. I knew that it could do a much better job than what I could do. The problem was fear. I slowly worked on the 'fear of apostates' (simliar to what you have tried) over a peroid of time. When I felt my wife may be ready, I introduced her to the book.

  She didn't want to read it at first. It sat on a bookshelf in our bedroom for a few days, completely untouched. Eventually she picked it up and started reading.

  As long as you are able to develop an atmosphere of trust and acceptance, the other person may just explore new things. But don't move too fast. I think I introduced COC about 4-6 months after I had actually read it.
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  16

  My husband admitted being too fearful to leave the JWs

  by doublelife in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my husband came home from work and told me that he told his mom about me not believing in this religion anymore.

  she's concerned and thinks i should tell my family.

  i told him no.

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  drew sagan

  I'm just so eager to show him what I'm learning that maybe I'm not going about it in the right way.

  A word of caution.

  You haven't even finished reading Hassans book yet, and already you are trying move for change. You may be missing very important points if you rush this process. For instance, the most important thing about fear is that it is used to coerce people into making decisions that they normally would not make otherwise. Walking people through examples of how this works in other groups, as well as the group under discussion is one way this can be articulated to the "high control group" member.

  Additionally, the idea of focusing on other organizations that have similiar teachings lays the groundwork for a conversational dead end. This is because the argument impliciltly suggests that the Watchtower's institutional and doctrnal structure has legitimacy. If your husband actually does begin to look at those other groups he will no doubt find a reason to say they are not "the truth", ending the discussion. Don't paint yourself into a corner if you don't have to.

  Take a deep breath, relax, and be glad that your husband isn't getting ready for a divorce. No doubt he shares some of your feelings, but has not come as far as you have....yet.
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  57

  How fast can you "prepare" a Watchtower lesson?

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  over the last 3 years i've gotten much faster at making a wt article look "studied".. .

  how fast can you get one ready for inspection by snoopy elders and microphone handlers?.

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  drew sagan

  Five minutes? Are you actually trying to do a good job ?

  I remember a few times when I studied mine in less than a minute. Just used a highlighter and made random markings. Went back with a pencil and circles some of the bible verses and quotes. Looked great!

  I remember one Elder who was always kissing ass, trying to climb the WTS ladder. He would study his with his wife, in the KH parking lot, 1/2 hour before the meeting. The highlighters and pens never worked so fast!
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  37

  If You Want to Expose JW's, Get it Right!

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnessses, (and esp their leadership, the governing body) are guilty of so many things, that one has to be careful of the tabloid rumors swirling around them.. it's probably helpful to review first of all what jw's are guilty of.

  they are absolutely guilty in their efforts to control active members under the dictates of the conscience of the gb.

  every other watchtower article usually has big time references to how we shouldn't be like those self righteous pharisees in jesus day for all the rules, followed by another article next describing what one can (could) or can't (shouldn't) watch on tv, wear for clothing or hairstyles, etc.

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  drew sagan

  The bigger question: Is it really think it's possible to reason with people who believe in things such as evil subliminal art, satan worship, and internet monitering?

  There was a website on the net (it could possible be gone) that did a great satire of subliminal images in Watchtower art. It outlined various shapes inside the pictures using microsoft paint. I wish I could find it, it was damn funny.
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  74

  Assembly Call: PLEASE Come Back & Help Us Out---Ministerial Servants & Elders!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was told they were practically begging those elders and servants who are no longer "being used" to help carry the load once again.

  these people are unbelievable!.

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  drew sagan

  I remember at one convention (possibly the last one I attended) we were told from the platform that there was a need for "40,000 qualified brothers".

  Not to much longer after that a weekly meeting was dropped, something that no doubt helps more become "qualified".
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  26

  Unbelievable!!! ,The Watchtower is still teaching the old generation doctrine!

  by 1914BS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is nuts.

  the feb 15 -08 wt threw out that doctrine!!.

  those whose make it into the paradice are not the "generation" as spoken of at matthew 24:34. .

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  drew sagan

  I believe this speaks more to the incompetence of the WTS in the way that it clumsily manages its website and publications. This article was no doubt placed online before the change, but has not yet been taken down.

  I actually think this shows how unimportant the Watchtower.org website really is. The WTS has not developed theif flagship website very well, a tetstament to their overall opinion of online media.
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  40

  I find it illogical for people to believe in "Religion"

  by sinis in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i just don't understand.

  i was raised a jw, believed the whole line of bullshit, hook, line, and sinker.

  after leaving i still believed in the bible.

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  drew sagan

  One aspect that may provide some additional perspection is considerations about commitment and culture.

  JWs are a fundamentalist faith, and require strong commitment from their followers. They put in place strong punishments (and a few rewards) in order to force people into a set pattern of behavior. Religious dogma assists in this process with promises of paradise and fears of armageddeon being used as control devices.

  What is largely missing from the JW fundamentalist experience is culture and tradition. JWs have no holidays, traditions or any other unique cultural heritage. Many people "in the world", and even in other fundamentalist sects, stay within such systems because of these cultural traditions. Belief in god and religion is simply a vehicle by which this is achieved. This also provides people with a connection to the past (e.g. "this is how they used to celebrate a marriage in the old country"). Try looking up "cultural mormon", its pretty intersting.

  People born and raised JW have very little experice with these cultural and traditional ties. Of course, such traditions have their own positives and negatives. Yet to label all "religion" as something similar to the fundamentalist JW perspective is a great mistake IMO. Not all people take religion as seriously as the JWs do. Additionally, people may "get" things from their religion that the JWs never provide, things that go beyond the comfort a dogmatic theology provides - (i.e. social activity, traditional, holidays, cultural heritcage, etc)
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  160

  My Wife is demanding that I stop coming to this board.

  by garyneal in

  1. social
  2. family

  okay, i am in a bit of a dilemma.

  since i believe in honesty between marriage mates, i have been telling my wife about this board and my participation on it.

  i feel it is only right so that she won't feel like i have anything to hide.

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  drew sagan

  Because she believes herself to be on the side of "truth" no fair balance can ever really be reached. I feel that those who suggest striking a bargin are not considering this point.

  Many here have discussed their methods and techniques used to help a marriage partner that is still locked into being JW. I faced such a situation, and JWD poster openmind has as well. Read our archived posts to try and get a feel for how the process worked.
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  31

  The Great Crowd Don't Even Inherit the Earth.

  by cantleave in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this came up on another thread i started, but think it desrves it's own, as it is a complete revelation to me.. .

  the mild-tempered ones are happy because they will inherit the earth.

  jesus, who was mild-tempered and lowly in heart, is the appointed heir of all things and is therefore the principal inheritor of the earth.

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  drew sagan

  Coming back to the original focus of this topic, the quote provided by BluesBrother is very interesting in regards to the WTS rhetoric regarding "inherting" the earth. It reminds me of a phrased use so often by JWs. In regards to this situation it would probably be argued that the other sheep inherit the Earth "in a sense".

  It is clear that the Watchtower technically interprets the phrase as regarding to the anointed. I believe this view is present in the very recent Insight book. What is intersting is how WT arguments bypass this technical interpretation by providing a direct link to other sheep. My own personal belief was that they may say that the other sheep inherit the earth in talks and convention parts, but that it never has officially been in print. In this way they could push the membership towards beleiving that the WTS teaches one thing, when in fact the official doctrine is exactly the opposite. The quote provided by BB disproves this assumption. The WTS actually goes out and says that the other sheep do inherit the earth, thus contradicting their other, more technical, explanation.

  This could be the product of two situations. Either the WT writer is being deliberatly manipulative, or he is ignorant of his own religions interpretations. I tend to fall along the latter argument. I believe that the idea of the "meek inheriting the earth" refering to the other sheep is such a widespread belief among the JW membership, it is not surprising that this has made its way into a publication. The writers of the article are most likely ignorant of the official teachings, something that let the 04' passage slip into the magazine.
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  37

  Write letters to citizens of Warwick New York exposing the Watchtower org.

  by koolaid-man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a recent newspaper article in the warwick new york newspaper uncovers the plans for the watchtower society to move out of brooklyn new york and set up their world headquarters in warwick.

  http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2009/11/25/warwick_advertiser/news/2.txt the citizens of warwick and the surrounding communities should be exposed to what the watchtower society really is, a dangerous and destructive cult!

  note in the newspapers link comments made at the end of the article from concerned readers warning the community to really think twice before permitting the watchtower org.

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  drew sagan

  Lots of people use the word campus to denote the grounds of an institution, whether it be a medical facility, university, or in this case a religious organizaitons headquaters.